The argument for a large human colony in space

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Profile Bob DeWoody
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Message 1904938 - Posted: 5 Dec 2017, 8:03:51 UTC

I watched some interesting programming on the Science channel where several different ideas for permanent human colonies off the earth. The moon (earth's) , Mars, an asteroid, one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn and finally a large colony living in space. The scientists interviewed made several good arguments for the space based community. The first is the ability, through the use of spin to have a large portion of the space station simulate a 1 g environment. Another would be the ease of going to and coming from the colony, no gravity well to fight on landing or takeoff. A large enough space station would be capable of growing it's own food supply. There would be no possibility of altering the natural development of life as there would be on Mars and some of the major moon candidates. This last problem is a non issue in my mind.

Any thoughts out there? Might give us something less political to wrap our minds around. i get really tired of all the hostility in the political forums, and yes I know I don't have to read or participate in the discussions in the poliitic forum. If there was more activity in the space forums I probably wouldn't open the politics forum.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1904946 - Posted: 5 Dec 2017, 10:37:13 UTC - in response to Message 1904938.  
Last modified: 6 Dec 2017, 6:35:30 UTC

I have translated the book "Colonies in space" by Eugene O'Neill. who proposed to assemble space colonies at the Lagrange points. Unfortunately, I have no copy of the book, either in English or Italian, and cannot remember the details of his plans.
Tullio
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Message 1905073 - Posted: 6 Dec 2017, 10:43:23 UTC

Star Trek - Deep Space 9 was the ultimate in space colonies of course, but all we have at present is the ISS. We know that in weightless conditions the human body deteriorates and loses bone mass, hence the spinning space station design.

Unfortunately NASA was got at by politics and lack of funding which is why the shuttles were retired before time, and they are marking time with cock-eyed ideas of going to asteroids. Down likely to the Japanese to build Moonbase 1, and private enterprise to go to Mars.

It is envisaged that the ISS can be kept going until about 2030 maximum, then it will have to self destruct by letting its orbit decay. But if a new fleet of shuttles was built, man could build a spinning space station 10 times bigger, a small DS9 if you like.

But there is no indication the the USA would be interested so perhaps a Japanese/Russian/private consortium?
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Message 1905087 - Posted: 6 Dec 2017, 13:23:50 UTC

China should launch its Tiangong-3 space station. Unfortunately, a US law forbids any cooperation between China and USA. This is sheer stupidity.
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Message 1905090 - Posted: 6 Dec 2017, 13:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 1904946.  
Last modified: 6 Dec 2017, 13:41:57 UTC

I have translated the book "Colonies in space" by Eugene O'Neill. who proposed to assemble space colonies at the Lagrange points. Unfortunately, I have no copy of the book, either in English or Italian, and cannot remember the details of his plans.
Tullio

It seems to be a great read, I'll put it on my TRQ for sure. Thanks for the suggestion !
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Message 1905237 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 0:24:48 UTC

China should launch its Tiangong-3 space station. Unfortunately, a US law forbids any cooperation between China and USA. This is sheer stupidity.
China is held in the same view as Russia by the USA, it can't be trusted. You don't give your space technology to your potential enemies. Even on the ISS, note INTERNATIONAL Space Station, each country has its own separate modules, although Russia and the USA take turns to be the station commander.

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Message 1905252 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 1:55:02 UTC

The top 2 computers in the top500 list are Chinese, the third is Swiss, the fourth Japanese, the fifth is the American Titan. Maybe USA can learn something from China.
Tullio
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Message 1905284 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 5:44:21 UTC - in response to Message 1905252.  

It works both ways though TUllio. The USA coul;d learn maybe more about computers from the Chinese, but they would learn a hell of a sight more about space technology from the Americans, not a risk worth taking.

In any case according to Wiki Tiangong-3 was cancelled?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiangong-3
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Message 1905303 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 9:00:09 UTC

I think it would be a great idea to build a large spinning space station at the earth-moon lagrange point. It would then be way above all the LEO space junk that threatens the ISS.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1905304 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 9:00:30 UTC
Last modified: 7 Dec 2017, 9:35:53 UTC

I did not know the cancellation of Tiangong-3. Anyway, the 29 November issue of "Nature" details the results of the Chinese "DAMPE" satellite (DAMPE stand for DArk Matter Positron Electron) which, with Italian equipment aboard, has given new results. after those of the AMS-02 experiment on the ISS, headed by Samuel Ting, a Taiwan Chinese,on the density of electrons ad positrons in space. It seems to me that they are making progress also in space exploration and build their own rockets.
Tullio
As an afterthought about cooperation, the USA is still using Russian Soyuz rockets to sent its astronauts to the ISS. I often wonder how they combine the metric SI system used by the Russians and the Imperial system used by NASA. Grosse casino, as Niki Lauda used to say.
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Message 1905317 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 13:15:55 UTC
Last modified: 7 Dec 2017, 13:44:52 UTC

According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon. Roscosmos is also interested and so are Canada and Japan. It would be called the Deep Space Gateway. But much depends on the new NASA administrator James Bridenstine, nominated by President Trump, who has still to take his office.
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Message 1905397 - Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 20:32:37 UTC

That sounds a bit more like it!!
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Message 1905855 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 6:18:37 UTC - in response to Message 1905317.  

According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon. Roscosmos is also interested and so are Canada and Japan. It would be called the Deep Space Gateway. But much depends on the new NASA administrator James Bridenstine, nominated by President Trump, who has still to take his office.
Tullio

I think it is a great idea, even somewhat better, for now, than trying to build a base on the moon. Especially if they build it big enough to spin it so there can be a 1g environment on at least a portion of the space station.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1905860 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 6:25:33 UTC - in response to Message 1905317.  

According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon.

Cosmic radiation?
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Message 1905873 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 7:22:41 UTC

That may be a problem since the Moon has no magnetic field like the Earth's. Here is what NASA says so far:
The agency began studying the deep space gateway concept with U.S. industry and space station partners. Using the most powerful rocket in the world, NASA would launch a power and propulsion element, habitation module for crew, and logistics module for the gateway concept in the early crewed missions of SLS and Orion.
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Message 1905895 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 10:39:48 UTC

It is all doable with current technology (just sbout) With the orbiting moon station simple shuttle craft to the surface builds Moonbase 1 :-)) Or if the Chinese beat us to it, Moonbase 2.

The technology learned from all that takes us to Mars, and beyond.
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Message 1905969 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 18:53:09 UTC - in response to Message 1905860.  

Cosmic radiation?

I would think that would be a big hurdle.

And what about micro-meteorites? I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.
The mind is a weird and mysterious place
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Message 1905992 - Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 20:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 1905969.  

I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.

They have. As they haven't had a spectacular failure it doesn't make the news.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/09/iss-evaluate-mmod-strike-cupola-window/
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Message 1906134 - Posted: 10 Dec 2017, 7:19:26 UTC

Part of the solution to the radiation problem would be the storage of the station water supply to act as shielding. But since cosmic rays come from most any direction surrounding the inhabitants with a shield of water may be impractical. It might be more practical to generate an electromagnetic shield. If no reliable means of shielding can be developed then probably long term residence on a space station or in space anywhere may not be possible.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1906156 - Posted: 10 Dec 2017, 9:25:30 UTC

I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.
It is well known that the ISS regularly alters it's orbital height by a few miles up or down to miss orbiting space junk. That is achieved by firing attached spacecraft thrusters, or by using their own thrusters.
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Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : The argument for a large human colony in space


 
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