Star Wars: The Last Jedi -- SPOILERS!

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David S
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Message 1908081 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 3:35:53 UTC

I saw it this afternoon and I just need somewhere to talk about it.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED THAT THERE ARE SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD, STARTING IMMEDIATELY!

The first thing I'll mention shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody. At the end of the movie when they put up the names of the star actors (the full cast list comes later), the last one is "In Loving Memory of our Princess, CARRIE FISHER."

What was highly surprising was the one before it, or rather the character's appearance that caused it: "And FRANK OZ." I hadn't heard the slightest clue that his character was in this one. And a real smartass too, more than he ever was before.
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Message 1908088 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 4:31:59 UTC

As mentioned above. SPOILERS.

And Frank Oz's little green guy is guilty of arson.

How Star Wars "The Last Jedi" brought back that surprise character.

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Message 1908124 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 10:32:49 UTC - in response to Message 1908088.  

As mentioned above. SPOILERS.

And Frank Oz's little green guy is guilty of arson.

How Star Wars "The Last Jedi" brought back that surprise character.

Actually, the article says he wasn't, which I didn't catch seeing the movie. Well, okay, he was, but it was only the building.

I'm trying to decide whether the X-wing under the water was purely a red herring or will come back in IX.
David
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Message 1908131 - Posted: 20 Dec 2017, 11:18:40 UTC

The x-wing under the water is probably a nod to the swamp scene on Dagobah where it was also submerged.

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Message 1908266 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 3:41:37 UTC - in response to Message 1908131.  

The x-wing under the water is probably a nod to the swamp scene on Dagobah where it was also submerged.

And I was expecting Luke to levitate it out like he couldn't back then, but he didn't.
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Message 1908273 - Posted: 21 Dec 2017, 4:05:14 UTC - in response to Message 1908266.  
Last modified: 21 Dec 2017, 4:06:15 UTC

The x-wing under the water is probably a nod to the swamp scene on Dagobah where it was also submerged.

And I was expecting Luke to levitate it out like he couldn't back then, but he didn't.

Heck. I didn't expect Luke wanting to burn the tree and Jedi texts. If Rey already had the texts. Then Yoda's burning the tree down may have been an devirsion to keep Luke from knowing about the missing books.

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Message 1908456 - Posted: 22 Dec 2017, 18:16:45 UTC

So what did you think of the scene with Chewbacca sitting down to dinner?
David
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Message 1908461 - Posted: 22 Dec 2017, 19:00:01 UTC

Eating a furby. Lol. How do you eat your meal when the next one is stairing at you with sad puppy dog eyes like your not going to eat him are ya.
Not sure how good a pet they would make. Possibly you don't feed them after midnight. And what kind of litter box would they need on the Falcon?

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Message 1910170 - Posted: 2 Jan 2018, 7:19:42 UTC
Last modified: 2 Jan 2018, 7:26:02 UTC

The actors were good, lots of neat effects and CGI designs, and a lot of effort was clearly put into the film. But there was just too much I didn't like about the movie.

First, I kept hearing phrases like "bold new directions" in interviews with the director, and I thought that meant they were going to stop with the remakes. Turned out to be a remake of The Empire Strikes Back. But not wanting a remake is only my personal preference.

As the 2nd part of a trilogy, it didn't connect very well with The Force Awakens. It seemed to toss out ideas from the previous film, in order to fit the characters into an altered version of The Empire Strikes Back.

The writing wasn't so good. The humor wasn't very funny or else out of place. There were plenty of plot holes, big and small. The remade scenes didn't have very good payoff vs the originals. There were scenes that I couldn't think of a purpose for.

SPOILERS SPOILERS ****** Then back to a personal preference. Luke went through a traumatic experience and became a hermit, and so did Obi-wan and Yoda. But Luke really went from the hero of the original trilogy, to trying to murder his own nephew while nephew was sleeping? And then Luke's sacrifice was done to buy a few minutes of time for the others to escape. Oh, but there was a way out of that base all along. No one bothered to physically look for it after checking the blueprints. I thought the writer could have came up with a more creative scenario. *****END SPOILERS SPOILERS

The movie was exciting, and visually nice, but there were so many moments throughout the movie where I had to pause and scratch my head. It's a fantasy space movie, and I have a very low threshold for suspension of belief. I came out of the theater wondering what in the world I had just watched.
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Message 1911066 - Posted: 6 Jan 2018, 4:17:33 UTC

Explosion - fireball! Explosion - fireball! Explosion - fireball!

Sigh....

I'm just getting to be too old and cranky to enjoy modern "action" films.
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Message 1911683 - Posted: 8 Jan 2018, 4:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 1910170.  

Turned out to be a remake of The Empire Strikes Back. But not wanting a remake is only my personal preference.

I suppose it was in the respect of Rey going off to learn from the hermit Jedi Master, then leaving him to confront the baddie in the black cape. The rest not so much, though.

SPOILERS SPOILERS ****** Then back to a personal preference. Luke went through a traumatic experience and became a hermit, and so did Obi-wan and Yoda. But Luke really went from the hero of the original trilogy, to trying to murder his own nephew while nephew was sleeping? And then Luke's sacrifice was done to buy a few minutes of time for the others to escape. Oh, but there was a way out of that base all along. No one bothered to physically look for it after checking the blueprints. I thought the writer could have came up with a more creative scenario. *****END SPOILERS SPOILERS

(The whole thread is under spoiler alert.) Looking back, I think the revelation that Luke tried to kill Ben is our first hint that he never really reached the true enlightenment of a Jedi, as Yoda then points out to him. However, Luke didn't sacrifice himself to buy them time -- he wasn't really there, thus not injured by all the weapons fire. I agree about the back exit; I didn't get that either. And I'm not quite sure why Luke died after NOT being killed by the weapons.

I think perhaps the best moment, though, was when Snoke told Kylo to take off the stupid mask.
David
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Message 1911749 - Posted: 8 Jan 2018, 11:19:14 UTC

Luke merged with the force. So he is not totally gone. I did think he sacrificed his physical self to buy them some time to escape. Projecting the force image of himself from a different planet and star system probably used up and stressed out his magic Jedi battery. And also provided some good comic laughter for us.

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Message 1911750 - Posted: 8 Jan 2018, 11:23:26 UTC

On a comic relief note... At the point where Luke's image appears to Leia, the guy behind my friend and two seats over states, "Just for Jedi.." -- (In reference to Luke's dark hair and beard in that scene; whereas, in the rest of the film he's quite gray. -- (Just for Men... haha)


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Message 1911752 - Posted: 8 Jan 2018, 11:51:12 UTC

Lol.

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Message 1911827 - Posted: 8 Jan 2018, 20:34:15 UTC

I liked the movie but felt they got a little too dark by killing off 99% of the resistance. But I will withhold having a final opinion until after episode 9 is released. Doesn't say much for the light(good) side of the force. I too thought the submerged X-wing was going to have a role to play in the plot. I will have to see the movie at least one more time to formulate my complete opinion of the plot line. I didn't expect the good side of the force to dominate in the end but maybe episode 9 will bring balance back to that portion of the universe.
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Message 1911991 - Posted: 9 Jan 2018, 6:43:47 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jan 2018, 6:49:49 UTC

About the movie being a remake. Reviewing the protagonist: Rei and Luke's stories are very similar. Looking for a teacher, finds the teacher, teacher is resistant at first, then teacher comes around, student has some kind of vision or experience and wants to leave, teacher disagrees, student leaves, teacher has a talk with a Jedi ghost, student has a confrontation with their antagonist while failing to achieve their goal for having left the teacher, teacher dies, student meets up with friends and hugs or hold hands then camera pans out into space. My opinion is the overall chain of events for Rei in Last Jedi and Luke in Empire Strikes Back were nearly identical. Even the title "The Last Jedi" seems to suggest the protagonist's story is being reused. Rei is the last living Jedi with some form of training, after Luke dies (although I'm not sure about Leia). Luke was the last living Jedi with some form of training, after Yoda died.

Then the rest of the movie is not as identical as the protagonist's subplot, but has a lot of similar subplots. The beginning of the Empire Strikes Back was an Imperial attack on a Rebel base on an ice planet. I might be wrong, but I believe there was a failed attack from orbit (shield generator and ion cannons stopped the star destroyers bombardment), so then they fight it out on the ground. The Rebels make an escape. In the Last Jedi, It also starts out with a failed attack from orbit (base was already empty, dreadnaught gets hit by bombers). But there's no fight on the ground, and the Resistance escapes. The ground fight is delayed until the end of the movie. The ground fight has some similarities to Empire Strikes Back: ice planet (or salt), big AT-AT walkers, turrets and trenches in the snow, giant blast door in front of protagonist base, snow speeders (although 1 version can't fly). What's different is The Last Jedi has a weird car chase arc that allows the delay of the ground battle to the end of the movie.

The other subplot was Han/Leia going to Cloud City, and Finn/Rose going to the casino. These were not as similar as the lead protagonist's story, nor the Imperial/Rebel battles, but borrows a lot of ideas. The reasons for separating from everyone else and going on this detour were different. But they both end up meeting another rogue character. The rogue character is supposed to help them, but ends up betraying them. The specific contents of the parallel arcs have a lot of differences. For example, Han got captured, but Finn did not. However, Han does outlive his antagonists (Jabba and Bobba) in Return of the Jedi, while Finn defeats Captain Phasma in a much earlier resolution. The specific order of events and the places where they happened were different. As the final result of both movies' detours, there is a kiss. In Empire Strikes Back, it makes sense. In Last Jedi, it was totally unexpected and weird.

My opinion is the movie was a remake.

Replying to the comment about the size of the Resistance. The New Republic should have millions of planets, and the Force Awakens only showed 1 star system getting devastated. By the end of that movie, Finn is in a coma. Finn wakes up early in Last Jedi, so the time in between should have been short. How did the New Republic go from millions of planets to a tiny fleet? Even if it was just a small group that got caught unawares, why was there no response from any of the tens of thousands of military garrisons around the galaxy? This plot hole is a little of a nitpick, since galaxy-wide considerations are more for the Expanded Universe instead of the movies. Or perhaps the First Order had thousands of fleets that destroyed the New Republic's military off-camera.

Replying to the comment about Luke dying. There are a few times in the Expanded Universe where Jedi have died from channeling too much force through their bodies, so what happened to Luke isn't entire unreasonable. But I don't know if the writer intended to use the same explanation, since the new movies appear independent from the Expanded Universe. And people who only watch the movies, I think some were left confused about the way it happened. Same with Leia surviving vacuum. Some Jedi have done the same in the Expanded Universe, but I also think some audience would have found Leia's scene a bit bizarre.

There are dozens of other things I can complain about. The utility of arcs that didn't seem to result in much story progression (Vice-Admiral's lack of communication, the casino detour, celebrating the injury of people and property in the casino), use of characters as the 2nd movie in a trilogy (what happened to all the set-ups from the Force Awakens?), lots of plot holes (car chase that made no sense, driving a convertible through a laser beam, walking and dragging someone across a flat field many kilometers wide right in front of enemy tanks). I'll just leave it alone since I've already written to much.
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Message 1912067 - Posted: 10 Jan 2018, 6:16:28 UTC

My goodness! You have certainly put a lot of thought into this.

Movies like this one just don't stick well in my brain.
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Message 1912327 - Posted: 11 Jan 2018, 12:38:37 UTC

Why does it look like these two can be father and son?


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Message 1912435 - Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 0:47:08 UTC

Just watched this trailer. KENOBI: A Star Wars Story

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Message 1912644 - Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 22:17:23 UTC
Last modified: 12 Jan 2018, 22:19:54 UTC

Why does it look like these two can be father and son?

I think so, the resemblance is there.

My goodness! You have certainly put a lot of thought into this.

Well, I didn't nitpick so much about Force Awakens. It was alright, so I just moved on. But the moment Last Jedi ended, I kept scratching my head, so I sat down and took time to review what was bothering me.

Just watched this trailer. KENOBI: A Star Wars Story

They have their own issues, but some things I like about the standalone films are that we get to see new stories apart from the main characters of the franchise, and they don't have to follow the same formula. It's also why I like the Expanded Universe. The original trilogy set up a whole galaxy of possibilities. While most stories were about the central characters, many were about supporting characters, and sometimes entirely new characters. And the genres can range between fantasy, sci-fi, military, and space opera. Even more, a lot of stories made an effort to participate in the same timeline and sometimes reference each other. That's kind of why I was hoping for something really new in the Disney trilogy. So many stories to choose from, but even if they didn't choose to draw from the Expanded Universe, I'm sure they could've thought of something new. Instead they chose to take fewer risks and do a reboot/remake. I suppose the standalone films are where they decided to do things differently.
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