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Winterknight
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Message 33459 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 9:33:09 UTC

With AP the initial download would have to be low due to the processing times, even if they are halved before release into the wild. Some computers, either due to hours on Seti or because of their age will be stretched to do one AP unit/cpu/month. Hence my question in my draft on min recommended specs.

I would also like RAC to be brought into the equation that determines downloads. It is quite mad that a host that has been connected for months and a small RAC should be able to download 100's, even thousands, of units. It is obviously a different case with newly connected hosts, but I have for a long time said that a host should earn the right to download more than a minimum amount/cpu.
The connect interval plus extra work options should also have a max limit, probably 10 days, so that seven day connect interval plus seven extra days = 10 days cache max. I've been a road warrior in Europe, when Seti first started, May 99, and never had problem connecting every few days.
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Profile Keith T.
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Message 33463 - Posted: 20 May 2008, 13:57:49 UTC - in response to Message 33458.  

A minimum host RAC of 150 or 200 (or even 100), would prevent some of the problems.

While also eliminating a lot of potential contributors.


I chose a fairly arbitary figure as an example, for use on SETI main. I am not sugesting that a min RAC should be set here at the moment.

Hosts with less than any minimum RAC would still receive MultiBeam WU's.

At the moment I would not get any AP work myself using the limits that I suggested, but I know that my Athlon XP 2200+ is usually capable of an RAC > 150 running 24/7.

It currently has an RAC of 123.5 across all projects.

On reflection, a host RAC of 50 or 100 would probably be better. :-)
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Father Ambrose
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Message 33694 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 10:35:54 UTC - in response to Message 33390.  

Here will be the joint collection of information that you feel should be available as AP moves to Seti Main

If there is something you see please start the conversation.





Question??

Shold we not perhaps be putting a similar sort of thread on seti main asking the guys over there what they know of Astropulse what they expect and there worries? All the points raised so far are good but we have been using Astropuse and know it.

michael
A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely what you want it to do.
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Profile Pappa
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Message 33702 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 5:43:03 UTC - in response to Message 33694.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2008, 23:23:23 UTC

Michael et al...

Yes "we" have been running it and know it best... Currently there are a bug or two to work out and the credits issue. At a point in time Eric/Josh will let Joe know that we want an optimization look for the compiler that the Seti Group uses... So that will represent some speed changes, such as with Enhanced and Multibeam.


Here will be the joint collection of information that you feel should be available as AP moves to Seti Main

If there is something you see please start the conversation.





Question??

Shold we not perhaps be putting a similar sort of thread on seti main asking the guys over there what they know of Astropulse what they expect and there worries? All the points raised so far are good but we have been using Astropuse and know it.

michael

Thanks to Paul and Friends
Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project
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Winterknight
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Message 34499 - Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 3:04:07 UTC

Should have done this a few days ago.

Josh's official Astropulse FAQ
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 34516 - Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 20:59:52 UTC

One user has reported having an AP task 'in the wild' at SETI Main. Prompted by that clue, I found a little sequence from WU 306064024 to 306064117.

They were created on 27 July, and all seem to share two characteristics:

1) They've been given a 30-day deadline - which, if continued, needs to be corrected in the FAQ.

2) Every single one I've checked has ended early in the run (before 5%, I would judge) with 30 pulses. We haven't seen that in Beta testing for a long while: a similar work generator problem to the one we saw last year when MB went live, perhaps?
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Claggy
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Message 34517 - Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 21:21:55 UTC - in response to Message 34516.  
Last modified: 31 Jul 2008, 21:25:55 UTC

One user has reported having an AP task 'in the wild' at SETI Main. Prompted by that clue, I found a little sequence from WU 306064024 to 306064117.

They were created on 27 July, and all seem to share two characteristics:

1) They've been given a 30-day deadline - which, if continued, needs to be corrected in the FAQ.

2) Every single one I've checked has ended early in the run (before 5%, I would judge) with 30 pulses. We haven't seen that in Beta testing for a long while: a similar work generator problem to the one we saw last year when MB went live, perhaps?


O.K, I've suspended Einstein and Seti Beta to get my one Seti Main AP WU out of the way,
15mins and 0.422% completed so far.

Claggy.

Edit: Wow, that didn't take long, 17min 25secs.
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Richard Haselgrove
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Message 34518 - Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 21:29:24 UTC - in response to Message 34517.  

O.K, I've suspended Einstein and Seti Beta to get my one Seti Main AP WU out of the way,
15mins and 0.422% completed so far.

Claggy.

Wow, that didn't take long, 17min 25secs.

306064061. So your 4.22 credit claim was for about 0.5%? That makes a full-length WU worth about 850 credits - slightly better than here, but still not on parity with MB. Still, we shouldn't draw too many conclusions from a single datum so early in the run.
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Claggy
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Message 34519 - Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 21:41:43 UTC

I've left Seti Beta & Einstein suspended and set allow new tasks on main,
got another AP WU, had to suspend (& unsuspend) loads of MB WU's to get it started, 5mins 30secs so far.

Claggy.
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Message 38103 - Posted: 18 Sep 2009, 22:31:53 UTC
Last modified: 18 Sep 2009, 22:50:53 UTC

I'm not sure I'd go along with the minimum RAC argument; though perhaps a minimum credit if the argument is "who's contributed what"? Checks to make sure people's computer can complete it in time is of course reasonable.

However, to say this removes potential contributors would be a fair assesement. If they were going to do RAC, perhaps looking at cross-platform RAC (adding it up from all attached projects) could alleviate this however. Here's the thing. There are quite a number of BOINC projects, in differing fields, some with a more immediate (read "practical") impact on science in the here and now. Some people might contribute to say some of the medical projects, because they expect a new useful drug to be found in our lifetime... By own admissions, the finding of ET could be very long term; in fact part of the argument with Astropulse is that things of other scientific value can be found while we're searching for ET...

That in itself can be a reason why some contributors might spend more time on other projects; because for their donated time they're looking for something of more immediate term impact to come from their time spent. By telling them "because you aren't running SETI, near exclusively on your CPU, 50% of the time or whatever arbitrary estimate of, you're locked out"; the end consequence is some people who would find more benefit to running it with the possibility of finding other astronimical phenomina beside might essentially say "if we can also find other astronimical phenomina, might say "oh well, but still I want some of my CPU time to be spent doing something that won't necessarily take until my great, great, great grandchildren are elderly before we see a result. And now that I can't, unless I already...."

In fact, in the interum, our own communication methods could undergo some change (and in this, just look at the changes to telecommunications over the last 50 years or so); and in this, the ideas haven't ceased. Such as for instance the possible use of quantum enmeshed particles to "carry" secure communications.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Welcome+to+the+quantum+internet:+quantum+encryption+is+here,+but+the...-a0183553573

Keeping the key secret as they create it is the crucial part, and here's where Ekert exploits quantum physics--specifically, a weird phenomenon called quantum entanglementQuantum entanglement is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which the quantum states of two or more objects have to be described with reference to each other, even though the individual objects may be spatially separated.
.....In quantum physics, each of two objects can exist in its own state, or the objects' states can be entangleden·tan·gle
tr.v. en·tan·gled, en·tan·gling, en·tan·gles
1. To twist together or entwine into a confusing mass; snarl.

2. To complicate; confuse.

3. To involve in or as if in a tangle.
..... Click the link for more information., meaning that, while separate, they are not independent of each other.

Take photons, the elementary particles that form electromagnetic radiation electromagnetic radiation, energy radiated in the form of a wave as a result of the motion of electric charges. A moving charge gives rise to a magnetic field, and if the motion is changing (accelerated), then the magnetic field varies and in turn produces an , including light. Photons wiggle sideways as they zip along an optical fiber. Two photons can wiggle in independent directions, called linear polarizations. But two photons can also be entangled, so that, for example, when one photon is polarized A one-way direction of a signal or the molecules within a material pointing in one direction. vertically, the other must be polarized horizontally, and vice versaVICE VERSA. On the contrary; on opposite sides.

...Quantum encryption systems are now available commercially. Some are owned by banking institutions, for example, and one was used last fall in Switzerland to transmit electoral data from an electronic polling station. So far, though, these links have mostly been point-to-point rather than networks with multiple users.

With a network of quantum-encrypted lines such as the one being built in Vienna, users will just need to link to the node closest to them. When one user wants to send a secret message to another, the message will travel in encrypted form from the first user to an entry node. There, the message will be decrypted and then encrypted again (using a new key) to be sent to the next node. The same will happen at every node in between, until the message reaches its destination.

...However, in 2001 Lukin and his collaborators envisioned away to get around this problem by creating entangled pairs from photons that are far apart. If realized, their scheme would enable long-distance, quantum-encrypted communication.

If photons can be entangled over long distances, they could enable people to interact in ways that just aren't possible within the realm of classical physics.

...Lukin's idea to create long-distance entanglement relies on yet another trick called entanglement swapping. In entanglement swapping, each of two sources produces a pair of entangled photons. The photons from the first source, say A and B, are not entangled with those from the second source, say C and D. Next, B and C are brought to the same detector. There, B and C interact and are destroyed, causing A and D to become entangled even though they were never close to each other.

Repeated applications of entanglement swapping over a chain of nodes can create pairs of entangled photons that are farther and farther from each other. Eventually, all photons are destroyed, except for the ones at the opposite ends of the chain. Those two end up entangled.

The method seems fail-safe on paper, but in practice, at each step at least some of the photons have a high chance of getting lost. But if one could somehow store pairs of photons that have successfully been entangled while other pairs are still being generated, long-distance entanglement would become possible at a reasonable speed.


When I first read about this, it was back in 2006, when I was incidently taking classes in optics (have a degree in computer networking). The first thought that crossed my mind is if space isn't really an issue with entangled particles, and they mirror each other's actions, if a message could be encoded that would take space out of the equation (they will mirror each other no matter how far apart they are). And if so, could this get the time/space limitation used with ordinary radio communications out of the equation. At that time, what I was reading was theory, and not of a practical application being put into place; though using entangled particles for secure communications was being hypothesized.

I threw some of it like here

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/forum_thread.php?id=3#3

in second post, but didn't go in-depth. Anyhow, a civilization advanced enough, and perhaps communicating with other civilizations "out there" would probably be looking at something (this perhaps? something else perhaps?) for their own communication. And yet, a civilization at around our level of technological development could of course be using technologies similar to our own for similar purpose. But, looking long term, even we ourselves are advancing, so where we are today, isn't necessarily where we were just a decade ago, let along a century. And the things being contemplated in theory and yet not fully developed (like the above), aren't necessarily on par with what's readily available from the commercial stand point, atm. They're more, in development for future use...

I guess, long term communication (as distinct from secure communication), if there's a possible application to the above, would probably be first reasonably be tested if we for instance returned to the moon or went to Mars, and NASA wanted to know if an application could be made for this, to remove the time delay we've become accustomed to, from communications between the astronauts and mission control here on Earth. But if such proved possible, the ramifications, and then how one would test for something like that...

A secondary search, while maintaining the search for ET though, could result in some perhaps increasing their resource share however ;)
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Message 48979 - Posted: 27 Jan 2014, 3:02:52 UTC

So how do I get astropulse to run on my intel gpu?
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Message 48983 - Posted: 27 Jan 2014, 3:48:27 UTC - in response to Message 48979.  

So how do I get astropulse to run on my intel gpu?

You only need to post in one place.

Claggy
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