Please use stock apps in SETI@home Beta.

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Profile Raistmer
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Message 43224 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 9:38:50 UTC - in response to Message 43203.  
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 9:41:10 UTC

Hopefully those estimates will fix themselves quickly.

Again, not the way we want to go on main!
While they will fix themselves too many tasks will be finished with -177 or so error because of too big estimations.
We need either better initial estimates or transfer already established estimates between updates.


Too big of an estimate will not give the -177 error, that occurs when the task takes more than 10 times the original estimate.


Ok, then it's not so severe issue but better to start with already known estimations IMHO.
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Message 43227 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:45:16 UTC

Can someone explain what "Reset project" really does?
I removed app_info, did project reset, project update... and BOINC began to download new tasks for 6.03 %)

Only after BOINC complete restart it began to download stock app executable.
So, why BOINC restart required together with project reset??? Take into account, BOINC can run many projects, and project reset important only for single project while BOINC restart affects ALL running projects.
One more design flaw ?

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Message 43228 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:51:22 UTC

And another weirdness:
we have stock app differentiation by version. 6.01, 6.02 and so on, each app version has own statistics.
But we have only single anonymous platform with differentiation only by device (ati, nv, cpu).

The questions is: if BOINC doesn't really cares about version number for anonymous platform what the hell it wipes whole cache if that version for anonymous platform in app info changed ???
Either we need full statistics for different anonymous platform versions or we absolutely no need <version> tag in app_info at all.

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Message 43230 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:56:20 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 11:57:26 UTC

LoL, and another one:

10993474 39394 7 Jul 2012 | 11:40:56 UTC 7 Jul 2012 | 11:41:48 UTC Время истекло - нет ответа 0.00 0.00 --- AstroPulse v6
Анонимная платформа (ГП ATI)


Status in russian means "time expired, no answer".
Less than minute passed from sending and time expired ??? Maybe it's worth to change wording for such situation? I expected to see "abandoned" instead of that, cause those tasks really were abandoned (they were assigned to 6.03 anonymous but host became 6.04 stock before they even finished to download).
It's cosmetic, but...
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Message 43231 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:57:45 UTC - in response to Message 43227.  

Can someone explain what "Reset project" really does?
I removed app_info, did project reset, project update... and BOINC began to download new tasks for 6.03 %)

Only after BOINC complete restart it began to download stock app executable.
So, why BOINC restart required together with project reset??? Take into account, BOINC can run many projects, and project reset important only for single project while BOINC restart affects ALL running projects.
One more design flaw ?


Some year ago it seemed like reset project downloaded any new app if it wasn't provided by the project and also resetted som numbers.

But today I do a remove project / and re-add the project to get a fresch start.
The question is good. Why is that button there for???
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Message 43232 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 13:13:35 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 13:14:46 UTC

If I recall reset project removes all dare I say Stock apps and WU's only, leaveing every thing else intact i.e. app info and all opp app files exe ect.

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Message 43233 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 15:52:17 UTC - in response to Message 43227.  

Can someone explain what "Reset project" really does?
I removed app_info, did project reset, project update... and BOINC began to download new tasks for 6.03 %)

Only after BOINC complete restart it began to download stock app executable.
So, why BOINC restart required together with project reset??? Take into account, BOINC can run many projects, and project reset important only for single project while BOINC restart affects ALL running projects.
One more design flaw ?


I did a reset project for Beta yesterday on my Q8200 with Boinc 6.10.58. That removed everything from the Beta project folder, and immediately downloaded stock app executable again, and WU's for CPU (I didn't get any 6.04 for my ATI, but that is a different issue, which Eric is looking into) I did not have to restart BOINC though, a reset was enough.
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Message 43249 - Posted: 8 Jul 2012, 21:50:52 UTC

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/workunit.php?wuid=4049775
GPU stock vs stock validation, bugged credit granted.

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Message 43250 - Posted: 8 Jul 2012, 23:47:03 UTC - in response to Message 43249.  

Thanks. I'll be upgrading credit on all of these in the next couple days, but I want all the numbers around for a little while.
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Message 43252 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 12:29:38 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jul 2012, 12:29:56 UTC

Well, BOINC 6.10.60.
Again, resetting project did not remove app_info.xml
Manual removal of app_info and resetting project resulted in nothing new.
Again BOINC complete restart required to get rid of anonymous patform and to start stock app download.
I think it worth to be reported as bug. It's private business of single project - to use anonymous or stock, not whole BOINC setup. BOINC restart should not be required for this.
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Message 43253 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 13:17:24 UTC

Have to report, somewhen in the last 15 hours the Remaining(estimated) times adjusted to approximately precise times on host 58896.

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Message 43255 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 14:52:50 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jul 2012, 14:55:29 UTC

Well, first downloading 6.04 task on my NV host has estimate of 705h - too far from reality so initial "guestimation" is too wrong still. Such big estimation time will prevent from filling cache so I'm unable to switch off network and collect performance data on stock app.

P.S. current estimation on main is 19h, 2 task at once, and single task completes in ~2h running alone. 705/2 will give in how much times the miss is.
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Message 43256 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 16:23:55 UTC


My first 6.04 nvidia task was estimated at 441 hours. Previous tasks took around 3 hours to complete. After 52 minutes of processing it is now at 32 percent. Nasty side effect of the estimate being wrong is that lots of other tasks go into 'high priority' and are processed first (I'm running 9 projects, including 5 with cuda work).

While I'm posting I might as well ask a question: does anyone have an explanation for the amount of credit awarded for this workunit ?

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/workunit.php?wuid=4049609

I'm not complaining (I know this is Beta), just curious.

Tom
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Message 43257 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 16:24:56 UTC - in response to Message 43252.  

Well, BOINC 6.10.60.
Again, resetting project did not remove app_info.xml
Manual removal of app_info and resetting project resulted in nothing new.
Again BOINC complete restart required to get rid of anonymous patform and to start stock app download.
I think it worth to be reported as bug. It's private business of single project - to use anonymous or stock, not whole BOINC setup. BOINC restart should not be required for this.

The Anonymous Platform feature was originally meant for cases where the project did not supply an application for a platform. In that context, having a Reset delete everything would simply take the host system out of production. If a user wanted that, Detach/Remove would be the sensible choice.

Having Reset clearly different from a Detach/Remove followed by Attach/Add is useful in several ways, and I hope you won't stir up changes without considering side effects.
                                                                  Joe
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Message 43258 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 16:35:51 UTC - in response to Message 43256.  


While I'm posting I might as well ask a question: does anyone have an explanation for the amount of credit awarded for this workunit ?



It's one of the things I'm trying to debug. For some reason hosts that don't have 10 valid "non-outlier" results for this version are getting really low credit grants when validated against other similar hosts. Associated with that are really long run time estimates Once I've figured out why, I'll grant normal credit to those hosts.
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Message 43259 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 17:31:24 UTC - in response to Message 43257.  

Having Reset clearly different from a Detach/Remove followed by Attach/Add is useful in several ways, and I hope you won't stir up changes without considering side effects.
                                                                  Joe

So what exactly "reset" button do for anonymous platform? (and what it does for stock) ?

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Message 43260 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 17:34:08 UTC - in response to Message 43258.  


While I'm posting I might as well ask a question: does anyone have an explanation for the amount of credit awarded for this workunit ?



It's one of the things I'm trying to debug. For some reason hosts that don't have 10 valid "non-outlier" results for this version are getting really low credit grants when validated against other similar hosts. Associated with that are really long run time estimates Once I've figured out why, I'll grant normal credit to those hosts.


Just some guess: if BOINC thinks that my host should spend let say 700 hours for task that in its opinion will cost 700 credits then indeed, if it sees that my host spent only 2 hours on such task it awards 2 credits instead of 700.
Maybe wrong initial estimation is the reason ?
Anyway 700h estimation is wrong.
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Message 43261 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 19:54:07 UTC

Just a (simple) idea for the initial estimation :

Use the average runtime of the slowest OpenCL capable card (Radeon HD4350) as initial estimation.
This could be derived experimental before release of a new app version by running a shortened wu (only 2 to 5 DMs) and interpolating to the full runtime.

That would be far less frightening for users than the current method, which seems to lead to estimations past the deadline of a wu (>576 hours).


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Message 43262 - Posted: 9 Jul 2012, 20:19:52 UTC

Newly downloaded tasks on ATi host have estimation of 26h, too much too but much better than before. Currently runing task has remaining time estimation more than 100h still.

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Message 43263 - Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 6:34:10 UTC - in response to Message 43259.  

Having Reset clearly different from a Detach/Remove followed by Attach/Add is useful in several ways, and I hope you won't stir up changes without considering side effects.
                                                                  Joe

So what exactly "reset" button do for anonymous platform? (and what it does for stock) ?

Basically it flushes what can be replaced from the project. Just tasks for anonymous platform, but everything in the project directory for stock. It's basically meant as a fix for something being corrupted client side.

That's close to detach/reattach for stock, but it doesn't remove the project details so the next work request is seen as a normal request and the usual logic applies including "Resend lost work" if that's enabled by the project. As assigned work for stock always includes URLs of everything needed to process it, the client then downloads whatever it doesn't have.

For anonymous platform the user has taken responsibility for telling the BOINC servers what work can be processed. The Reset hasn't changed that so again the work request is handled as normal.
                                                                  Joe
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