Network/Internet Routing problem to Berkeley from some of Europe

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Iridian

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Message 102005 - Posted: 20 Apr 2005, 23:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 101918.  
Last modified: 20 Apr 2005, 23:16:52 UTC

In this German forum I just read KPN and Tiscali also depeered or have connection problems with Cogent from march 11.

They say:"..Was mich wundert ist dann wohl mehr warum KPN, die DTAG und Tiscali keine Ãœbergabe an Cogent in FFM haben". Now I don't know what FFM is, but it seems there is a connection except for FFM...

And also they say (German): "Tiscali hat Cogent in Europe depeer'ed, will heissen sämtliche Peerings mit Cogent/Gatel beendet, nur noch das in den USA steht. Der Grund ist das ruinöse Dumpingverhalten von Cogent auf dem europäischen Markt.
Mitlerweile haben einige Carrier Cogent depeered, manche teilweise, andere ganz. U.a. KPN, Tiscali, Teleglobe, Telia usw usw...
Teleglobe ist sogar soweit gegangen, dass man dort alle Pakete zu Cogent filtert, d.h. Cogent ist von Teleglobe aus (und umgekehrt) nicht zu erreichen.
Wenn Cogent so weitermacht, isses (hoffentlich) bald vorbei. "

That would maybe explain my connection problems. In my trace routes there are no France Telecom servers but there are KPN servers. And the article from Sir Ulli also talks about KPN Eurorings...


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Iridian

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Message 102011 - Posted: 20 Apr 2005, 23:32:41 UTC - in response to Message 102005.  
Last modified: 20 Apr 2005, 23:35:22 UTC

FORGET my last message!

For some strange reason my connection IS BACK!!!
Finally. Something obviously changed, traceroute back to normal.
It now traces beyond the 10th hop!

1 2166 ms 3 ms 3 ms SpeedTouch.dcdl [10.0.0.138]

2 10 ms 10 ms 9 ms 195.190.249.9

3 11 ms 11 ms 10 ms ge0-1-v61.dsl-rtr1.ams-tc2.io.nl [81.17.32.21]

4 10 ms 11 ms 11 ms if3-4.rtr2.ams-tc2.io.nl [81.17.32.70]

5 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms portch1.core01.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [195.69.144.124]

6 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms p5-0.core01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1.225]

7 132 ms 133 ms 133 ms p10-0.core01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.0.46]

8 107 ms 107 ms 107 ms p5-0.core01.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.110]

9 158 ms 158 ms 158 ms p5-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.185]

10 160 ms 160 ms 160 ms g0-1.na01.b003123-1.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.6.2]

11 165 ms 164 ms 164 ms UC-Berkeley.demarc.cogentco.com [66.250.4.74]

12 165 ms 165 ms 164 ms 66.28.250.125


No need for proxy anymore.

I am not sure if the same counts for all that connect via France Telecom servers.
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Message 102120 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 6:32:16 UTC

Hey. Thats good news ......wondered what has changed?. Good luck and I hope it stays up!

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Profile Pierre Grogan
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Message 102131 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 7:12:37 UTC - in response to Message 102011.  

> FORGET my last message!
>
> For some strange reason my connection IS BACK!!!
> Finally. Something obviously changed, traceroute back to normal.
> It now traces beyond the 10th hop!
>
> 1 2166 ms 3 ms 3 ms SpeedTouch.dcdl [10.0.0.138]
>
> 2 10 ms 10 ms 9 ms 195.190.249.9
>
> 3 11 ms 11 ms 10 ms ge0-1-v61.dsl-rtr1.ams-tc2.io.nl [81.17.32.21]
>
>
> 4 10 ms 11 ms 11 ms if3-4.rtr2.ams-tc2.io.nl [81.17.32.70]
>
> 5 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms portch1.core01.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com
> [195.69.144.124]
>
> 6 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms p5-0.core01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com
> [130.117.1.225]
>
> 7 132 ms 133 ms 133 ms p10-0.core01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com
> [130.117.0.46]
>
> 8 107 ms 107 ms 107 ms p5-0.core01.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com
> [66.28.4.110]
>
> 9 158 ms 158 ms 158 ms p5-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
> [66.28.4.185]
>
> 10 160 ms 160 ms 160 ms g0-1.na01.b003123-1.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com
> [66.28.6.2]
>
> 11 165 ms 164 ms 164 ms UC-Berkeley.demarc.cogentco.com [66.250.4.74]
>
>
> 12 165 ms 165 ms 164 ms 66.28.250.125
>
>
> No need for proxy anymore.
>
> I am not sure if the same counts for all that connect via France Telecom
> servers.
>
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Profile MikeSW17
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Message 102133 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 7:22:06 UTC
Last modified: 21 Apr 2005, 7:40:15 UTC

Hey! BOINCer makes the News! http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/
(for the righr reasons for a change :D )

Well done Ian.

LOL! Just realised who you are Ian... makes vour comment elsewhere about 50 minutes to any part of London higly ironic.
Thought it should be 8?

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Message 102135 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 8:02:44 UTC
Last modified: 21 Apr 2005, 8:15:29 UTC

8 yes......damn I hate that number now.....or 14......hey how did you work that out? You know me or just know of me? Ha its in my profile ...stupid me!

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Message 102149 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 9:46:38 UTC - in response to Message 102135.  

> 8 yes......damn I hate that number now.....or 14......hey how did you work
> that out? You know me or just know of me? Ha its in my profile ...stupid me!
>
Something about the name rang a bell - Google did the rest.

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Message 102154 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 10:19:50 UTC - in response to Message 102005.  
Last modified: 21 Apr 2005, 10:33:21 UTC

> In this
> German forum
I just read KPN and Tiscali also depeered or have connection
> problems with Cogent from march 11.
>
> They say:"..Was mich wundert ist dann wohl mehr warum KPN, die DTAG und
> Tiscali keine Ãœbergabe an Cogent in FFM haben". Now I don't know what FFM is,
> but it seems there is a connection except for FFM...
>
> And also they say (German): "Tiscali hat Cogent in Europe depeer'ed, will
> heissen sämtliche Peerings mit Cogent/Gatel beendet, nur noch das in den USA
> steht. Der Grund ist das ruinöse Dumpingverhalten von Cogent auf dem
> europäischen Markt.
> Mitlerweile haben einige Carrier Cogent depeered, manche teilweise, andere
> ganz. U.a. KPN, Tiscali, Teleglobe, Telia usw usw...
> Teleglobe ist sogar soweit gegangen, dass man dort alle Pakete zu Cogent
> filtert, d.h. Cogent ist von Teleglobe aus (und umgekehrt) nicht zu erreichen.
>

> Wenn Cogent so weitermacht, isses (hoffentlich) bald vorbei. "
>
> That would maybe explain my connection problems. In my trace routes there are
> no France Telecom servers but there are KPN servers. And the article from Sir
> Ulli also talks about KPN Eurorings...
>
>
>

Hello all. Well it gets worse I think. Fellow boincer and team member Matthias vom Brocke translated the German for me. It reads as follows:

Tiscali depeered Cogent in Europe, that means they terminated all Peerings with Cogent/Gatel, exept for the USA. It is because of the destructive (ruinös...like bring to ruin) dumpingstrategy of Cogent at the european market...
Some Carriers depeered Cogent in the meantime, some partially, some fully. Among others, KPN, Tiscali, Teleglobe, Telia etc.
Teleglobe even decided to filter all packets to Cogent, that means you cannot reach Cogent from Teleglobe and vice versa.

Watch this space I guess.....Help is here

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Profile MikeSW17
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Message 102164 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 12:03:44 UTC

From 'Technical News':

> March 21, 2005 - 18:00 UTC
> Our Internet link through Cogent went down at around midnight UTC on
> March 18/19. This shut down our data service (upload/download). Cogent
> is still trying figure out what the problem is. We are also
> thinking about alternative ways to get the necessary bandwidth to
> the Internet.


One month later, I wonder how the though process is progressing...


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Message 102171 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 12:45:07 UTC

Indeed. I wonder if they should stay with Cogent given they seem to be the hated network supplier by their peers at the moment. I somehow doubt Cogent will stop dumping low cost capacity on the market which will proably lead to more peers falling out with them; just making harder for BOINC (and others) I guess. It may get worse before it gets better....as they say.

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Hammy

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Message 102181 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 13:30:58 UTC

Well no, because then you're just feeding the beast that is high-cost internet. Just as with EVERY provider you must have another in BGP. Even in the high days of Worldcom and UUNet, companies that bought from two "lesser" carriers paid less and were up more. I fully plan to purchase from Cogent and encourage all other pull-oriented or even balanced customers to do so. Save yourself some money, increase your bandwidth, etc. No, I'm not in bed with them, just don't understand why you'd pay more.

They had a big production with ATDN a couple years when they dropped their peering and were able to get over it, so I'm sure they will now as well. Their primary focus is eyeballs, but the people most attracted are datacenters and whatnot that move many gigs.
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Message 102193 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 14:53:23 UTC
Last modified: 21 Apr 2005, 14:54:09 UTC

Two problems.
1). Well low cost often leads to low profit which leads to low R&D budgets which leads to low tech solutions which leads to poor performance which leads to breaks in service which leads to unsatisfied customers. Simple really...we want a reasonable price as consumers. We must recognise that sustained low cost will hurt us in the end. It always does. I am led to believe that this is now the position of domestic Cogent customers although I have seen no proof personally.
2). Low cost bandwidth dumping causes other suppliers problems with their profitability. So what you might say. Well....the issue is that if you loss lead for long enough you will bankrupt the opposition thus removing competition thus enabling a hike in prices to whatever levels you want at a later date. It also means you control the quality of the product when there is no competition. Who blinks first loses! I accept I pay a small premium to see others stay in the market....who knows I might need them one day.

Now sure we all want lower costs and who would not vote for that. What we dont want is a distorted market which ends up with a few players who charge whatever they damned well please. This is a costly market to get into. New startups are fairly rare. As sure as night follows day bandwidth dumping at a loss will see NO startups and therefore no consumer choice. That's my view anyhow.

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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 102196 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 15:24:30 UTC - in response to Message 102193.  

> 2). Low cost bandwidth dumping causes other suppliers problems with their
> profitability. So what you might say. Well....the issue is that if you loss
> lead for long enough you will bankrupt the opposition thus removing
> competition thus enabling a hike in prices to whatever levels you want at a
> later date. It also means you control the quality of the product when there is
> no competition. Who blinks first loses! I accept I pay a small premium to see
> others stay in the market....who knows I might need them one day.

In the days of the OS wars, Microsoft "won" and look what we have ...

In the days of the Browser Wars, once again Microsoft "won", and if you are real observent you will have noticed that IE stopped evolving right after they drove the last competitor out ...

Now with Linux and Firefox in the mix have you heard? IE is supposed to have a new version due soon ...
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Message 102200 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 15:55:10 UTC - in response to Message 102196.  

> In the days of the OS wars, Microsoft "won" and look what we have ...
>
> In the days of the Browser Wars, once again Microsoft "won", and if you are
> real observent you will have noticed that IE stopped evolving right
> after they drove the last competitor out ...
>
> Now with Linux and Firefox in the mix have you heard? IE is supposed to have a
> new version due soon ...

Couldn't this have something to do with an IE release precedes every Windows release by a little bit? IE4 just before Win98, IE5 just before Win2K, IE6 just before WinXP, IE7 just before Longhorn? Longhorn is due out in about a year or so. Kinda makes sense, don't ya think?
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Message 102202 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 15:59:37 UTC
Last modified: 21 Apr 2005, 16:05:15 UTC

Yeah but the point is Nemesis_Q: kill the competition and you can sit back and do what you want after. That is what Cogent is doing...and successfully in US and in Europe.

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Message 102248 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 20:21:37 UTC

> kill the competition and you can sit back and do what you want after. That is
> what Cogent is doing...and successfully in US and in Europe.
I agree with you, Ian.
Months ago, Intel took the decision to delay/stop the development of its x64 processor. This was not the way taken by AMD with its Athlon64, FX and opteron. It was the good choice, the choice of (today?) tomorrow.
The result? The result is that Intel has changed very quickly his mind and give us now some x64 processors.


I was not able to get/reply any data. Using the proxies listed below, everything is working. I'm using dial-up and xDSL connexions and Wanadoo is my ISP
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost ... I am Aragorn, and those verses go with that name.
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Message 102266 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 21:44:26 UTC

Bonjour je suis en france et je n arrive pas a me connecter au serveur de seti une erreur du style "can't connect to server.Error (-16;0)" aparait j'ai cherché des reponce et je suis tombé par hasard sur ce site
quelqun pourait m'expliquer ce qu'il ce passe je me situ a paris et aparament j'aurais lu qu'il y a des problemes avec france telecom quelqun pourai m'eclairé en francais si possible merci.
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major

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Message 102270 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 22:13:05 UTC

salut diesel
moi aussi jai le meme probleme que toi
d'apres ce que j'ai comprit du truc (etant donnée que je parle anglais comme une vache espagnol) c un probleme qui serait du a FT

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Message 102290 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 23:23:54 UTC - in response to Message 102270.  

> salut diesel
> moi aussi jai le meme probleme que toi
> d'apres ce que j'ai comprit du truc (etant donnée que je parle anglais comme
> une vache espagnol) c un probleme qui serait du a FT
>
>
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dlaroh

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Message 102293 - Posted: 21 Apr 2005, 23:28:24 UTC - in response to Message 102290.  

> > salut diesel
> > moi aussi jai le meme probleme que toi
> > d'apres ce que j'ai comprit du truc (etant donnée que je parle anglais
> comme
> > une vache espagnol) c un probleme qui serait du a FT
> >
> >
>
Sorry les gars!

Je peux vous aider à comprendre, mais dites nous avec quoi vous travaillez (client, Setidriver, ??, ...).
@+
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Message boards : Number crunching : Network/Internet Routing problem to Berkeley from some of Europe


 
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