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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 15509 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 18:35:32 UTC

This is a test post. Try your best to ignore it.

- Matt - SETI@home/BOINC
BOINC/SETI@home
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Message 15510 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 18:42:09 UTC - in response to Message 15509.  

> This is a test post. Try your best to ignore it.
>
> - Matt - SETI@home/BOINC
> BOINC/SETI@home
>
I can't ignore it ! I have a crucial question.
Since the data has been backed up what should we
do with the WU we have downloaded last time ?
Are these WU still "good to process"

Thanks in advance. I am sure I am not the only
one wondering.

Regards
Marc



-.-. --.- -.. -..- . - .-.-. -.- --... ...--
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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 15515 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 18:56:45 UTC

This should be in its own message board thread, but I'll post some info
about this later.

Basically, since the database is "old" it is completely out of sync with
all the workunits that have been downloaded since August 11th. All those
clients will eventually process these workunits, try to return the result,
and then fail. Instead of wasting this time, we will ask (once the project
is back up) that all users restart the project (you won't lose old credit
for workunits processed before August 11th, only for ones processed since
then).

Yes this is bad. I know. But this is the best we can do when we encounter
a hardware problem that destroys the database and we have to recover from
a backup copy.

- Matt - SETI@home/BOINC
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Message 15518 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 19:00:41 UTC - in response to Message 15515.  

> Yes this is bad. I know. But this is the best we can do when we encounter
> a hardware problem that destroys the database and we have to recover from
> a backup copy.

Thanks Matt at least we know and we won't waste our time crunching
our current queue.

regards
Marc
-.-. --.- -.. -..- . - .-.-. -.- --... ...--
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Profile Bruno Moretti IK2WQA
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Message 15519 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 19:03:23 UTC - in response to Message 15515.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2004, 19:02:08 UTC

Matt Lebofsky wrote:
> Yes this is bad. I know. But this is the best we can do when we encounter
> a hardware problem that destroys the database and we have to recover from
> a backup copy.
>
> - Matt - SETI@home/BOINC
> BOINC/SETI@home

Thanks you very much for info, Matt! [/url]
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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan Project Donor
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Message 15520 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 19:04:59 UTC - in response to Message 15515.  
Last modified: 2 Sep 2004, 2:02:45 UTC

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Message 15521 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 19:12:00 UTC
Last modified: 19 Aug 2004, 19:12:22 UTC

Hi, Matt
I have downloaded few WUs before 11th but part of them I have uploaded AFTER 11th. What then?
10x
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Message 15522 - Posted: 19 Aug 2004, 19:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 15521.  

> Hi, Matt
> I have downloaded few WUs before 11th but part of them I have uploaded AFTER
> 11th. What then?
> 10x
>

What about WU that were downloaded before August 11th and returned them on around August 15th?!?! PLease answer...
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Message 15714 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 5:00:51 UTC

My God!

What sort of rubbish is this? Tell me how Berkeley cares about their users when they don't even dedicate a post on the main page!

I bet they would've known about it too, but instead of facing humiliation (When posting on the main board), they just keep it nice and quiet until someone asks!

Frankly this is extremely disappointing.

I think the below sums it all up nicely, taking from OcUK's own MikeSW17:

I can hardly believe what I'm reading

What kind of RAID are Berkeley using? A pretty poor one if it allowed a hardware/firmware failure to corrupt data.

Perhaps Snap Appliance would like to comment in defence of their product?

What kind of SQL database are Berkeley using? A pretty poor one if it caused data corruption that it didn't detect and roll-back the offending transactions.

It's very hard not to become totally disalusioned and depressed at the way BOINC's going. Not to mention questioning the quality and abilities of the design/development team.
###############################################################################

At least Predictor are open and honest with their users!
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Message 15719 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 5:18:22 UTC - in response to Message 15714.  

> My God!
>
> What sort of rubbish is this? Tell me how Berkeley cares about their users
> when they don't even dedicate a post on the main page!

> At least Predictor are open and honest with their users!
>

Does Seti/C2 ever admit that they caused a problem? Seem's something else (HW or whatever) made dev "jump"...

Predictor, does a very respectable job of letting the "super computer" know what's happening, and Seti/C2 should take some lessons....

Case in point was the "Matt" post. Matt's one of the main-line Boinc/Seti people, and while his message was in a few threads in this forum, he then backed up and stated "It's not offical".. Heck Matt is the webmaster of this site! Who else can post an "official" notice!

All I know, is that one or more messages should be sent to the marketing folks at SNAP, asking why their "top of the line" box at UCB crapped out so badly that UCB had to use an 8 day old tape - after one day!..... (there URL is available on the Classic site.. Under sponsors!)
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Profile Matt Lebofsky
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Message 15734 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 5:53:03 UTC

I'm webmaster in that I start/stop apache. Everybody on the (very small) team contributes to the content. I won't post anything on the front page unless everybody (especially the project directors) agrees with it. My comments here informal notices to those seeking a quick "inside scoop" but I may be completely off the mark for all I know. Hence "unofficial."

Anyway, we're actively working on improving the lack-of-PR situation.

And it actually wasn't an 8-day-old tape. The database was last updated 8 days ago (because the project was down). So in reality the data is only 3-4 days old.
Well, except for the message board data. And it wasn't even tape. It was a copy of the database we still had on line the whole time. We decided since we were down to reformat the raid device the old database was on for better throughput. I think we gained 2.5x the write speed in the process. That remains to be seen.

- Matt
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Profile Byron Leigh Hatch @ team Carl Sagan Project Donor
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Message 15736 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 5:58:55 UTC - in response to Message 15734.  
Last modified: 2 Sep 2004, 2:03:04 UTC

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Message 15737 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 6:00:00 UTC - in response to Message 15734.  

Matt,

Thanks for the messages you post. Official or unofficial they are always informative. Keep up the good work.

Carson
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Message 15738 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 6:01:03 UTC - in response to Message 15734.  

Thank you for "unofficial", anyway. Keep posting ;o)))

> I'm webmaster in that I start/stop apache. Everybody on the (very small) team
> contributes to the content. I won't post anything on the front page unless
> everybody (especially the project directors) agrees with it. My comments here
> informal notices to those seeking a quick "inside scoop" but I may be
> completely off the mark for all I know. Hence "unofficial."



Try WAP user info http://slavko.sk/wap/seti
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Message 15743 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 6:22:45 UTC - in response to Message 15734.  

> I'm webmaster in that I start/stop apache. Everybody on the (very small) team
> contributes to the content. I won't post anything on the front page unless
> everybody (especially the project directors) agrees with it.

So, you send -HUP to main apache process? If it's a "very small" team, seems it should be easy to get thier buy in... Now the "project directors", do they have the technical knowledge of the problems, to make a call? Ya, they might change the "wording", but on technical content, when you post in a forum, it's the "word of UCB"

> Anyway, we're actively working on improving the lack-of-PR situation.

Step 1 - get the "project directors" out of the loop, as they have no clue on the technology that the "supercomputer" is dealing with. They might noteven understand the technology you're dealing with on the server end.

Step 2 - Look at predictor as an example. The Dev team has been telling the "supercomputer" when they messed up, and all in all, has been taken well! Be able to admit your problems!

>
> And it actually wasn't an 8-day-old tape. The database was last updated 8 days
> ago (because the project was down). So in reality the data is only 3-4 days
> old.

Seems to me, that STEP1 of moving the DB from the old DB to the new one (as the project was down) would be to BACKUP the DB! Be it on tape, or another disk


> Well, except for the message board data. And it wasn't even tape. It was a
> copy of the database we still had on line the whole time. We decided since we
> were down to reformat the raid device the old database was on for better
> throughput. I think we gained 2.5x the write speed in the process. That
> remains to be seen.

Let's see.. disk-to-disk or tape-to-disk copy... I think I know here I'd put my money on "which was faster"! (only 2.5?)

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Message 15811 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 12:42:44 UTC

sig test

The whole is more then the sum of its particles. Aristoteles
Best wishes from Berlin(52°35'N,13°23'O), where you can't see the Milky Way ;-)!Basti
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Message 15818 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 13:15:42 UTC

But the post isn't yellow......
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Message 15838 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 14:46:01 UTC

once more

The whole is more then the sum of its particles.
Aristoteles
Best wishes from Berlin(52°35'N,13°23'O), where you can't see the milky way ;-). Bast
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Message 15871 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 18:32:23 UTC - in response to Message 15743.  

AZ Woody AKA conceited Pea Cock God
"I am Napoleon/Einstein of SETI@home,
I am better than all Berkeley,
Anderson newbie,
vote AZ Woody for SETI@home direction!!!"
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Message 15873 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 18:41:17 UTC - in response to Message 15743.  

AZ-Woody: Well that proves it. You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. We have all suspected it before but right there is the proof I have been waiting on.

> Step 1 - get the "project directors" out of the loop, as they have no clue on
> the technology that the "supercomputer" is dealing with. They might noteven
> understand the technology you're dealing with on the server end.

You might want to do a google search before insulting people. I quote from the seti-classic page: "Project Director. David [Anderson] has done extensive research in operating systems and distributed computing He designed the SETI@home software and data architecture."

He just designed the infrastructure for the world's largest super computer. He knows nothing. The director is one of the devs! He has contributed much code to BOINC.

Also, may I point out that you are being a hypocritical, stuck up snob? First you want more info and then you complain about it when it comes. I actually agree with you on the communications issue. It would be nice to hear more detailed news more often. But at least I say "thanks" when we get some. Matt (and Rom) is trying to calm some nerves with his 'unofficial' remarks. He takes time out of his day to post here for our benefit. A lot of times the rest of the team may be busy or unavailable so he can't get a consensus and make it 'official' but he still tells us what he knows. Were you raised by wolves or have you just forgotten how to be polite? Try it: "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

There... was that so hard?



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