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Message 42629 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 2:03:35 UTC - in response to Message 42628.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2004, 2:11:41 UTC

Hmmm... That would have been a good combo. Powell/Bloomberg v. Bill/Hillary...
Then again, there's a lot of folks even here in Lwon Gailand who can't stand Hillary, and I'm not sure if term limits are two terms or two consecutive terms...

[ADDENDUM] There are some who can't even tolerate our recently reelected senior senator, too. That's the real problem in New York: Incumbents always win.
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Message 42632 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 2:10:59 UTC - in response to Message 42626.  

I live in Puerto Rico so cant vote but I'm US by birth and did my time for the US in the Green Machine '66-'68 but it's beyond me for sure to figure how the US voting public look at GWB and think 'leader'- so be it. They deserve what they tolerate.
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Message 42643 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:02:58 UTC - in response to Message 42618.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2004, 3:32:17 UTC

> > Kerry concedes election to President Bush...
> >
> > That was the best thing to do for the democrats and for all Americans.
> > The country is clearly divided but Bush wons, that's democracy.
> > A recount in Ohio wouldn't have done any good to anyone. I just hope
> > Bush had learned a few lesson from Irak, and that he is ready to really
> > works with European leaders. I think Europe won't be as patient with
> > him during his second term...
> >
> Marc,
> Allow me to pick your brain and get your 'international' viewpoint. For the
> sake of arguement if Bush had NOT invaded Iraq (but still invaded Afganistan)
> what would the European opinion of him be? Is it negative just because of
> Iraq or are there other things outside the realm of Iraq?

I think The US had to react somehow to the 9/11 attack. Afganistan was the most
"logical" and "possible" regime to attack. There was Al Quaida training camp
there, the Taliban, etc. I think it was a good political action and the whole
world agreed with that. Canada and France are still there, the international
community never blamed the US for the war in Afganistan and I believe thing are
better now for Afgan. There is for sure economical interrest behind this war
(caspian sea pipe line) but the main reasons were not, at least do not appear
to be financials.

Irak in my views and those of the majority of people was not justify. There was
no training camp there, none of the Highjackers ever been there, there was no
WMD and the US government knew it. Irak has never been a threat to the US and
removing a dictator from power, the only "good" reason left do not stand the
road.

I think if Bush would have finished the job in Afganistan by capturing Osama
and stop there, the world would still support Bush. He just went too far by
invading Irak. What really annoy the world community was his way of overpassing
the security concil and blaming it for not being responsable. Blaming France of
letting American down, etc. Lets be realistic here, It's not like if Irak
really had WMD and thretning Officialy the US ? The way it has been presented
to american public was they let us down !!! But the truth was they know what I
am going to do is wrong and that is why they are opposing it. Countries like
Germany, russia, France also has secret services, very good one I would say,
they knew Bush's intention to invade Irak were purely for political and
financials interrest.

France has once been the world empire, just before the British. They have
colonised many countries and had war with Arabs long before the USA even
existed. The Algerian colony eneded in a war that was not very popular in
France, When De Gaulle took power he removed the french troops and gave the
country back to Algerian. It has been a turning point in France history. The
end of the colony and a new world political approach. At the same time they
got themselves with a quite big Nuclear arsenal to disencourage any country
to invade them like it happen in WWII. Just like Israel now, every country
who ever try to invade france would be nuked. I am not saying France is
perfect, it is not. There records in Africa and Asia is not Very bright, but
at least they have learned through their long history that try to dominate
the world isn't a good idea. Just as the British did.

Sorry for long post again...I hope you'll have the courage to go through. But
yes I think Bush would still have world support if it hasn't been of Irak story.


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Message 42647 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:12:50 UTC - in response to Message 42628.  

> Just wait 4 years. Bush will be termed out and Cheney wont run. I wouldnt be
> suprised if in 2008 we see Colin Powell vs Hillary Clinton.

My support goes to Hillary !!! Powel seem to be a nice guy, unfortunately he was with
the wrong administration at the wrong time. His UN security council presentation
of Irak's WMD will follow him forever. At least outside the US...
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Message 42651 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:24:49 UTC

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Message 42652 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:24:54 UTC - in response to Message 42629.  

> Hmmm... That would have been a good combo. Powell/Bloomberg v.
> Bill/Hillary...
> Then again, there's a lot of folks even here in Lwon Gailand who can't stand
> Hillary, and I'm not sure if term limits are two terms or two
> consecutive terms...
I think its two total terms, otherwise the democrats wouldve pushed for Bill Clinton to run again. He probably would've won too.
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Message 42655 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:42:54 UTC

Hispanic Lesbian Makes History in Dallas Poll


A democrat, hispanic, lesbian sheriff, in TEXAS !!!
I don't know her but she got my respect and support.
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Message 42656 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:43:14 UTC - in response to Message 42652.  

It just hit me - Powell/Guliani.
[frigid shudder]
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Message 42658 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:44:28 UTC - in response to Message 42643.  

> Sorry for long post again...I hope you'll have the courage to go through. But
> yes I think Bush
> would still have world support if it hasn't been of Irak story.
Dont worry.. it was easy to go thru. I was just curious because the world view of Bush keeps coming back to Iraq and I wanted to know if it was this single BIG issue or if there was other things that were being discussed.
I think that Iraq also was the biggest cause of all the negative feelings against Bush here in the States. I also think (ironically) that it was Iraq that kept Bush in office. Since we dont have a time machine theres nothing we can do to change the invasion but we have to look ahead and see what good can come out of it. If Kerry gets elected the view is he pulls out the troops to early and Iraq falls into total anarchy, ultimately being run by terrorists and harboring basically all terrorist groups. Consider it one big safe haven for terrorist. What would be the option then? Nuke it? Well theres your WW3. (Saddam was just about as evil as a person can get, but at least he had these terrorist groups that are now running around kidnapping/beheading people under his boot.) The hope is that like in Afganistan there can be elections and democracy in Iraq. If that doesnt happen then all those soldiers/civilian lives that have been sacrificed would have been for nothing. Kerry did have some very attractive promises. One of them being giving all Americans the same healthcare choices that Congress enjoys. The problem with that is how and who will pay for that? Also I'm for stem cell research. I like that Kerry would provide federal funding for it. However, here in California we passed Prop 72 in which the state provides $3 Billion to the research, making Kerry's promise moot. Bush wont have it easy this term but hopefully with all the negative feelings brought against him he will learn something from it and change the way he does business for this coming term. Hopefully in 2008 his brother, Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida wont be in the running. The last thing this country needs is a presidential dynasty. And you cant spell 'dynasty' without 'nasty'.
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Message 42659 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 3:48:12 UTC - in response to Message 42647.  

> Powel seem to be a nice guy, unfortunately he
> was with
> the wrong administration at the wrong time. His UN security council
> presentation
> of Irak's WMD will follow him forever. At least outside the US...
What I want to know is did he know at THAT time the WMD didnt exist, or was he still relying on faulty intelligence? You have to think that even once the CIA knew they were wrong they would cover their asses and lie to the Bush administration and try to convince them they were right. These high level people with their 6 figure jobs dont like the words "youre fired!"
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Message 42662 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:03:05 UTC - in response to Message 42651.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2004, 4:05:20 UTC

> <a> href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041104/ap_on_re_eu/eln_world_view&cid=518&ncid=716">Europe
> Allies Extend Olive Branch to Bush
> [/url]

Fantastic! I hope everything works out. Maybe knowing he cant seek a 3rd term Bush will mellow out a bit.
Bush Wins Re-Election, Seeks Broad Support

> A democrat, hispanic, lesbian sheriff, in TEXAS !!!
> I don't know her but she got my respect and support.
Here in SD we have a lesbian democrat as our County District Attorney (Bonnie Dumanis), and just voted in a democrat lesbian (Christine Kehoe) to our State Senate.
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Message 42665 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:09:36 UTC - in response to Message 42570.  

> > Isn't funny or strange that Osama is still at large after 3 years ? Are
> the
> > Bush administrations really hunting him ? Time will tell, but
> unfortunately
> > innocent people will continue to die before the "real" truth behind all
> this
> > is being discovered.
>
> What truth? The man is "mostly harmless" now. His rantings of earlier days
> have given way to politically-motivated diatribe. His 'speech' sounded like
> something one would expect to hear from Yasser Arafat.

I am not sure if he is harmless now. His last video had been recorded in a
real studio, (maybe in Fox stidio lol) so he still has some kind of protection
and nobody knows where he is. Actually he could be anywhere ! Some of Paris
and London suburbs are practicaly under the control of islamists. He could
very well be there since 9/11...even the police are not going there.
In these sub area it would be easy for him to recruts loyalist, really.

Where is Osama ? What power does he still have ?
time will tell.







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Message 42669 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 42659.  

> > Powel seem to be a nice guy, unfortunately he
> > was with
> > the wrong administration at the wrong time. His UN security council
> > presentation
> > of Irak's WMD will follow him forever. At least outside the US...
> What I want to know is did he know at THAT time the WMD didnt exist, or was he
> still relying on faulty intelligence? You have to think that even once the
> CIA knew they were wrong they would cover their asses and lie to the Bush
> administration and try to convince them they were right. These high level
> people with their 6 figure jobs dont like the words "youre fired!"
>

I don't know why but I tend to think that it's the opposite. I think the
Bush administration had manipulated the CIA informations. Look at the british
report that was a pure copy of a student work ! It just seem too easy to
blame CIA. Was it the CIA or the FBI that have advised the president of
a possible attack using commercial plane ? It seem to me that they were
getting good information somehow.

Lets suppose that the CIA did over estimated the Irak possession of WMD.
What about other agency ? The DST, MI6, Mossad, etc, none of them said
so. The UN inspector at the hand of Blix where doing a great job. The
relations with Sadam where getting better and better, he was cooperating
more and more. OK some violation of the no fly zone with very very old
french or russian fighter jests that was not a threats to anyone.

I think the CIA has been manipulated by Bush administration.
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Message 42670 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:28:56 UTC - in response to Message 42662.  

> > A democrat, hispanic, lesbian sheriff, in TEXAS !!!
> > I don't know her but she got my respect and support.
> Here in SD we have a lesbian democrat as our County District Attorney (Bonnie
> Dumanis), and just voted in a democrat lesbian (Christine Kehoe) to our State
> Senate.

Yes but it's CALIFORNIA not TEXAS...
Maybe I just have a wrong oppinion of texan in general.
lol it could very well be, I have never been there.
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Message 42673 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:38:16 UTC - in response to Message 42670.  

> Yes but it's CALIFORNIA not TEXAS...
> Maybe I just have a wrong oppinion of texan in general.
> lol it could very well be, I have never been there.
>
nonono, not California AKA the Left-Coast, but San Diego. A typically pro-military and conservative population.
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Message 42676 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:48:53 UTC - in response to Message 42658.  
Last modified: 4 Nov 2004, 4:54:48 UTC

The hope is that like in Afganistan there can be elections and democracy in Iraq.
Woodrow Wilson had a tough time making the world safe for democracy, too, but I don't think we can achieve it. The only test that can prove our/their success is going to be the 2nd election: Can Afghanistan/Iraq run their own election without problems? Time will tell.

...here in California we passed Prop 72 in which the state provides $3 Billion to the research, making Kerry's [stem cell funding] promise moot.
I think that's the only way it can be passed. Unfortunately state-by-state legislation has its dark side, too. 11 of 12 states banned gay marriage - I head that Ohio went as far as banning civil unions. You've gotta wonder sometimes about this country.

Bush wont have it easy this term...
It depends on what happens with his cabinet. Bush is now accountable to no one; He doesn't have to face reelection, so all he has to worry about is his legacy and presidential library (No, I'm sure that it won't all be "Dummies" books on the shelves). But he's got to do a lot of clean-up if he wants to be that uniter he keeps talking about.

...but hopefully with all the negative feelings brought against him he will learn something from it and change the way he does business for this coming term.
I've got a feeling that he doesn't care about that, otherwise he wouldn't be able to focus on... uhm... whatever it is he does when he's not in Crawford. If he looks back on his mistakes and learns from them, then yes, this term will go well. But since he couldn't think of one (and I doubt he'll hire a PR flack to review past decisions), I'm not sure what to expect but the worst.

Hopefully in 2008 his brother, Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida wont be in the running.
__________. (Can't find words)

The last thing this country needs is a presidential dynasty.
Kennedy, Roosevelt...

And you cant spell 'dynasty' without 'nasty'.
JR, Bush...

[sigh] Wish I could be optimistic right now...

[ADDENDUM] Just looked at the NY Times's election page. If Iowa and New Mexico turn out to be "blue states" then the only change from the last election is that New Hampshire went to the Democrats in '04.
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Message 42677 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 4:55:37 UTC - in response to Message 42656.  

> It just hit me - Powell/Guliani.
> [frigid shudder]

Too bad Arny could not be president because he is not US born.
I think the guy would do a great job. I mean he as a lot of
charism and he is not stupid. His idea looks more democrats
then republican to me. lol Terminator at the white house...
Imagine, the guy could fight the terrorist all by himself,
no need to send national guard anymore !!!
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Message 42679 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 5:04:23 UTC - in response to Message 42676.  

> ...here in California we passed Prop 72 in which the state provides $3
> Billion to the research, making Kerry's [stem cell funding] promise moot.

> I think that's the only way it can be passed. Unfortunately state-by-state
> legislation has its dark side, too. 11 of 12 states banned gay marriage - I
> head that Ohio went as far as banning civil unions. You've gotta wonder
> sometimes about this country.

Those states differences are indeed very strange. I guess it is due to
the size of the country. It's the same here in Canada. Laws are different
from one province to another, but the differences are not as big as in
the US, death penalty is the best example I can think of. If I had to move
to the US for some reasons, I would really take times to choose the state
I'm moving in. Smaller European countries doesn't have that "problem"
laws are the same whether you live in Paris or Aix en provence.
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Message 42680 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 5:07:53 UTC - in response to Message 42677.  

> Too bad Arny could not be president because he is not US born.
> I think the guy would do a great job. I mean he as a lot of
> charism and he is not stupid. His idea looks more democrats
> then republican to me. lol Terminator at the white house...
> Imagine, the guy could fight the terrorist all by himself,
> no need to send national guard anymore !!!
>
Well dont count him out yet. Look for him to challenge Senator Barbara Boxer in 6 years. Once he's in the federal government he'll be in a better position to try to make a constitutional ammendment. But even if he never becomes president he still will have accomplished a lot as an immigrant, and more than your average citizen.
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Message 42681 - Posted: 4 Nov 2004, 5:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 42679.  

"You simply cannot bring together a country that has over 265 kinds of cheese.”
- Charles de Gaulle

All of these laws are pretty f'ing cheesy, IMO (There's nothing humble about it).
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